Last year, when the one-on-one pandemic began with the outbreak of motion pictures, and films stopped production or their release dates began incessantly, Zendaya called Euphoria director Sam Levinson and asked if, somehow, they could take a movie in her house.
The end result of that phone call, as well as many text services and Covid tests, is Malcolm & Marie, the story of one night in which a couple returns from a movie premiere and follows an epic, hours-long argument. The story was inspired by Levinson who forgot to thank his wife during the premiere of his own film, something he made sure of when we spoke on Zoom earlier this month.
Levinson is best known for HBOs Euphoria, a study of adolescence that leans in the shocking and sad moments of growing up, and the series for which Zendaya won a historic Emmy last year for main character Rue.
Malcolm & Marie puts the audience at the center of the struggle while the couple exchanges small insults and deeper ties in a debate about authenticity, respect, ownership and the nature of criticism. Malcolm gets furious about a review – albeit a good one – being published that evening, and begins a tirade about how the “white lady at the LA Times“Do not understand him, or she does not work. It has since been questioned whether Levinson refers to Katie Walsh, a ‘white lady at the LA Times‘who gave his 2018 film Murder Nation a poor review.
Levinson spoke Esquire about the setback of the film’s remarks on criticism, the logistics and emotions involved in making art in isolation, and what we mean but do not say in arguments.
Esquire: The movie has this feeling of claustrophobia that we all live with, do you think the idea would have occurred to you if it were not for the pandemic?
Sam Levinson: Definitely not. I think because of the limitations that Covid imposed on us, we had to convert this movie and work out the story we could tell in those circumstances. So it’s two people, one place, no place to go, not a ton of costume changes. I think it’s unique to the limitations of the world we lived in at the time.
What other practical logistics were there?
Our Covid protocol, which was pretty strict, given how early in the pandemic it was. We have consulted epidemiologists and doctors to find the most extreme rules and implement them. We found this farm in Carmel with all these separate units in which people could sit individually in quarantine without coming into contact with each other, so this is the first ten days we did before we started shooting while we were being tested . There was no script supervisor, no first AD, no real props section, Z did her hair and makeup and there was no schedule. John David, Zendaya, me and our film photographer Marcell [Rév] was able to really dive into the material those ten days and break down every scene and line.
How was it different working with Zendaya compared to Euphoria?
I think we challenge each other to be better and do better. I always relied on her instincts because I think she’s so smart, not only as an actor but also as a producer, so it was a very easy process. John David was the first person I thought of. I called him, read a few pages, and he got excited. It became this ongoing dialogue until the day of arrival and throughout the shooting.
The film raises debate about the role of film critics and whether they can determine what the director intended, where did the idea come from?
Well [Malcolm’s] a filmmaker and because the film he made is about Marie, even though he does not give her credit for it, it has become an interesting angle to explore their relationship through this artwork that is separate from [them]. Malcolm gets such a stellar, glowing review from the critic, but not the way he wants it. It completely opens him up as a character and gets to the root of his narcissism.
Marie shares the same critique as the critic for Malcolm’s film, but takes it one step further and says: ‘My problem with you as a filmmaker is my problem with you as a human being’. It comes down to the idea that if we can not hear criticism, we can not grow as artists and people.
Do you think this is a challenging film to judge because it is critical of critics?
I do not know why, because Marie agree with the critic and therefore I do not necessarily know why it would be difficult to review in that sense. I’m not sure everyone sees it that way, but it’s an absurd scene. I always go back to the idea that Marie agree with the critic! I think it’s clear that Marie is the gravity of the whole piece and that she keeps everything together, whether she gets the credit for it.
Their argument always feels like a threat at the door that is going to return, how did you balance that with the more romantic and joyful moments?
This is one of the reasons why we decided to shoot it in order so we could build up the tension and then let the air out a bit. That there could be a moment that was gentle and could provide some relief, and then it suddenly turned back. In essence, it is this confusing debate, [so] we had to make sure we took the narrative in a way that felt like it was going somewhere. The same was true to shoot within one place, we had to let the house unfold so that it did not feel like we were repeating ourselves.
There’s a point where Malcolm is furious about the fact that films are always considered race by black directors or about black people. Was that something you heard from black filmmakers?
It seems similar in film criticism and history. Do the right thing was originally received at the time by some New York critics as a call to violence, and that Spike Lee not only made a bad movie, but an irresponsible movie, and that it should not have been released. You look back and think, ‘Who was right?’. There is this tendency among the establishment, and I mean white established critics, to categorize things and talk about them in a way that can sometimes speak to their own interest. [Films are] so ‘important’ that suddenly no one wants to see [them] because it feels like homework.
Did you have any anxiety about expressing it as a white filmmaker?
No, because I trust in the collaboration process and in my partners that if I write something that does not feel true, that JD or Z does not respond to it or feel honest, that they are going to say something and we I will work it out. I did not have anxiety in the sense because I have too much respect for the collaborative nature of filmmaking.
Did this kind of collaboration lead to improvised moments during the filming?
We took eleven minutes choreographed in a very specific way. Of course, there were moments in which life and certain advertisements seeped into the dialogue. These are the things you are so grateful for because it gives the feeling of promiscuity and life you are always trying to find.
The end is a moment we can not hear that we have been in battle for so long. Did you feel that it is important to leave things unresolved in a certain sense?
I like the idea, it is this ongoing conversation about how we express gratitude and respect for the people in our lives that makes us better. It’s something they find out or not, but it’s something we need to pay attention to in all relationships and pay attention to the work and partnership of those we love.
This interview has been edited and summarized for clarity
‘Malcolm & Marie’ is now on Netflix
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